Date: Monday, 11 July 1994 12:20pm CT To: *, WELRL, BALCR, CASJF, DODLD, HAYDP, RADRA, WILLCJ, THINK.TANK From: SCHORE Subject: steam - SHOULD BE 870 NOT 874 Hi, Thanks for the correction 3/9/94 on AT&SF No. 870, which is now in California. My Reply to you was delayed account doing research on this locomotive's history, as well as other locomotive data for other people. As reference for the following, I'm using my copies of Santa Fe Form 1161 dating back to January, 1936, plus valuation records. On 7/27/30, Santa Fe entered contract with Albuquerque & Cerrillos Coal Company to lease AT&SF No. 873, a 2-8-0 of the 870 Class, which were the former RM & SF engines. When AT&SF No. 873 had to be shopped, Santa Fe would substitute another engine for it, usually 870 Class. In fact, it seems that this Class was used during the 1930's as lease power to the coal company, substituting each other until the sales were completed in 1940. In Reference to No. 874: No. 874, assigned to the New Mexico Division, was laid up at Raton on 1/29/36. It was transferred to the Colorado Division on 7/24/36 in this status. It was assigned to the contractor building the new line south of Las Animas, Colorado during August of 1936. It was transferred back to the New Mexico Division on 10/23/36, and laid up at Raton. When No. 873, which was leased to Albuquerque & Cerrillos Coal Co., was placed out of service 1/14/37 at Albuquerque and held for disposition, No. 874 took over as the lease engine to the coal company. No. 873 was subsequently dismantled at Albuquerque 5/14/37. During the early months of 1937, whenever No. 874 needed shopping, AT&SF No. 756 substituted as the lease engine. No. 756 was a switch engine at Albuquerque. This practice continued until 8/1/37. From that date until August, 1938, whenever No. 874 needed shopping, No. 871 would substitute as the lease engine. After that time, No. 870 enters the lease picture. In reference to No. 870: The locomotive in question, No. 870 was built by Baldwin and delivered to the RM & SF as their No. 101 in September of 1906 and its cost was $ 16,216.25. (Diagram pages show it was built in 1905.) As AT&SF No. 870, it was assigned to Freight Service in the New Mexico Division. It was received at Albuquerque Shop on 5/3/34 for Class 3 Repairs. With the Depression on, it sat awaiting Shop Repairs during the years until it entered the shop on 10/31/38 and was released from the Albuquerque Shop on 12/5/38. It was laid up Good Order as a switch engine 12/12/38 at Albuquerque. It was leased to Albuquerque & Cerrillos Coal Co. on 3/31/39, replacing No. 874 which was shopped. After shopping, No. 874 returned to the coal company, so that No. 870 was returned and laid up Good Order on 4/28/39 at Albuquerque. No. 870 was leased to Albuquerque & Cerrillos Coal Co. on 7/16/39 replacing No. 874 which was shopped at Albuquerque. After the return of No. 874 to Albuquerque & Cerrillos Coal Co., No. 870 went to Albuquerque Shop for running repairs on 8/12/39, and was released from the shop on 8/17/39 and laid up Good Order. No. 874 went to Albuquerque Shop for repairs, so No. 870 was leased to Albuquerque & Cerrillos Coal Co. on 10/7/39. After the return of No. 874 to the coal company, No. 870 went to Albuquerque Shop for running repairs on 10/28/39. It was released and laid up Good Order on 11/18/39 at Albuquerque. When No. 874 went to Albuquerque Shop for running repairs, No. 870 went to the Albuquerque & Cerrillos Coal Co. on 7/3/40 until No. 874 was released from Albuquerque Shop and went back to the coal company on 8/3/40. At this time, No. 870 went back to the Albuquerque Shop for running repairs. However, on 7/27/40, No.'s 870 & 874 were sold to the Albuquerque & Cerrillos Coal Co. with the transaction completed, money received on 8/7/40, so official sale date is 8/7/40. On 4/13/50 AT&SF No. 769 was traded to the Albuquerque & Cerrillos Coal Co. for their former No. 874. Santa Fe then sold No. 874 to Luria Brothers, Pueblo as scrap on 4/24/50, and I suppose that the tender swap took place at that time or at the time of the trade. So at the final operations, the coal company had former Santa Fe 2-8-0's No.'s 769 and 870. I appreciate your telling of the move of No. 870 to Santa Fe Springs, California to update my records of the locomotive. By coincidence, after your letter, I received a letter from Mr. Chris Allan, Historic Railway Consultants, 21016 Longworth Ave., Lakewood, California 90715, dated 5/27/94, requesting information on this engine because they are restoring No. 870, as well as Santa Fe Class CE-1 Caboose No. 999308 (to original appearance), so I'm in the process of doing research for this group. They did not indicate if it was to be operable or a restored stationary exhibit. I suspect the latter. It is interesting to note that the official diagram pages for the 870 Class continued to show RM & SF No. 870 Class on pages even after being revised. But the page redrawn April 1922 was never changed though it did show a Schmidt Superheater added. The older page shows revision dates of 1/19/17, 11/6/17, 2/19/21 as a saturated engine. Using these pages the following information applies to these engines: Cylinders: 21 inches diameter 30 inches stroke Boiler Diameter: 68 inches front course 74-1/8 inches rear course Firebox Dimensions: 108-1/8 inches long 40-1/4 inches wide Grate Area: 30.0 square feet Flues: 281 Total 2 inch diameter 13 feet 9 inches long Boiler Pressure: 200 lbs per square inch Heating Surface in square feet: Firebox - 171 Flues - 2019 Total - 2190 Weight in Working Order: Tender - 136,000 lbs Weight on Drivers 163,150 lbs Weight on Engine Trucks - 17,650 lbs TOTAL ENGINE WEIGHT - 180,800 lbs Locomotive Dimensions: Wheel Base Lengths: Rigid - 15 feet 4 inches Driving Wheels - 15 feet 4 inches Engine Wheels - 23 feet 5 inches Total Engine and Tender - 54 feet 8-1/2 inches Tender Only - 18 feet 10 inches Widths: Maximum width over awnings when down - 11 feet 2-1/4 inches Over running boards - 10 feet 0-1/2 inches Over cab - 9 feet 10-1/4 inches Over cylinders - 9 feet 8-1/2 inches Over tender - 10 feet 0 inches Heights at rail - maximum to top of stack - 15 feet 2-7/8 inches to top of cab - 14 feet 3-1/4 inches to top of tender- 10 feet 8-1/8 inches Tractive force: 39,500 pounds Road numbers 870-874 2-8-0 Single Expansion Tender Capacity: 7,000 gallons of water 12 tons of coal The redrawn diagram page of April 1922 shows these engines being equipped with a Schmidt Superheater and the only changes in data between the two pages are as follows: Flues: 159 flues 2 inch diameter 13 feet 3-9/16 inches long 24 flues 5-3/8 inch diameter 13 feet 3-9/16 inches long Heating surfaces in square feet: Firebox - 171 Flues: 2 inch ones - 1106 5-3/8 inch ones - 448 TOTAL - 1725 Superheater - 350 square feet As information for those who are interested, I received a call from Mr. Karl Rethwisch of Trinidad, Colorado, who is a member of a group that is going to restore to "operating condition" Santa Fe No. 2912, 4-8-4 at Pueblo, Colorado. The group is working with the city of Pueblo on this project. Pueblo wants to establish a "Historic District", which includes the Denver and Rio Grande Western Freight House there. The plan is to move No. 2912 to the historic site at the Freight House, after which the restoration work begins. I understand that some of the appliances have been worked (air brake parts, lubricators) and were found in good condition. In fact, the engine had been in the shop at Clovis for running repair 7/18/55 to 7/20/55, and was laid up Good Order there on 8/4/55, so basically, the running gear and driver tires are in good shape too] In fact, the only negative things found were the lagging laden with moisture caused some Firebox Shell deterioration; the smoke stack never was capped, allowing moisture into the Smoke Box. When the engine was moved from Clovis to Pueblo, after its donation on 8/14/59, the piston valves were not applied and are missing. This engine was last assigned to the Panhandle Division Clovis to Emporia Freight Pool. The engine is equipped with Circulators which lasted twice as long as Syphons on the same Class of engine. It should be pretty exciting to see No. 2912 run, should all this become a reality] In Topeka, the Topeka Chapter of the National Railway Historical Society, in connection with the Topeka Railroad Days Committee is planning to repaint Santa Fe No. 3463, 4-6-4, located at the Expocenter in Topeka. Engine No. 3463 is in fair condition, but badly in need of paint to protect it from further deterioration. The engine was donated in a very 'road weary' condition and the years of neglect while on display and the careless removal of the lagging by a private contractor, has made the restoration of No. 3463 to operating condition, a goal that will take years to complete or if commercially done, over $ 950,000.00 cost estimate] It is hoped that sometime it will be done, and some discussion among Topeka NRHS members and myself have taken place on how to proceed. Finally, you asked if anyone had duplicate slides of Santa Fe active steam and I know of several people who do. However, they did not want their names and addresses put on E-Mail, but would be glad to accomodate you. Best thing is to furnish your address and I can forward it to them (Most slides would be "Big Steam"). In addition, "Railfan/Railroad Magazine" and "Trains" magazine carry advertisements for duplicate slides including Santa Fe steam and would suggest you write to those advertisers as well. Richard E. Scholz Machinist - Topeka SMT -------------( end of letter )--------------------------------------------------