Dean

I found a couple of more or less recent articles

Saboteurs blow up rail tracks
London |By Con Coughlin | 17-03-2003
http://www.gulfnews.com/Articles/news.asp?ArticleID=81032

Berlin-Baghdad Railway Documentary I
"http://community11.webshots.com/album/22961581tkCWdiCjPG";

Railways of Iraq
http://www.ajg41.clara.co.uk/iraqrailways.html

and this one on the Baghdad Subway
http://www.subways.net/iraq/

Dean

Near the Basra station I saw some railway houses typical of British colonial railways.

I was shown a bridge over the Shatt al Arab near the confluence of Euphrates and Tigris that during the second world war had carried trains into Iran to supply the Soviet Union. There is now no track on it.

I have no idea whether the mainline is usable. The southern end is supposed to go to Umm al Qasr. I think I caught a glimpse of the track going that way when I was taken to see a trench from the Iran-Iraq war.

George Matthews

An item to be considered might be that some Henschel-EMD-s might still be hanging on over there. Of the 82 units built 20 years ago, a few (30?) might still be worth an overhaul. Hope the drawing/spec sheet attachment works.

The interiors were a small-sized EMD 12-645 E3B prime mover, with AR-10 alternators and D77 traction motors ("D18" in the spec sheet is an error, as the Thyssen-Henschel sheet of April, 1983 carried several such "typos", incl. the IRR class designation).

Macosa of Spain later supplied larger units based on the 16-645 engine, and both did allegedly work more reliable than the French CEMT Superpower diesels. Maybe merely a Kassel local patriot's rumor .
The Henschel-EMD-s (IRR class "DEM 2500") were said to be re-engined later with the 16-645 prime mover, upgrading them to more tractive effort at higher speed. However, there is no clear evidence on that. The units would have matched the Macosa-EMD and French units then, for easier, exchangeable diagrams and unit allocations. Latterly, a German newsgroup reported of Chinese- built "DF-10" diesels to have arrived. Dunno their specifics, though.

The "Narrow-gauge" line to Bazrah apparently was re-gauged and realigned until 1968, rendering the entire IRR network standard-gauge. The German "FAZ" newspaper recently published a 1916 map of Baghdad superimposed on modern satellite mapping, showing a narrow-gauge line ("Feldbahn") running roadside from the southwest (1 mile south of today's civilian airport) into Baghdad, crossing over standard gauge by a road bridge near the central terminal station, but continuing to the city harbour on the Tigris river east of this, where it joined a standard-gauge reversing spur (made up a triangle with this one). Seems this narrow-gauge line is long gone.

Today, the Bazrah line joins the central station access track fan north of this bridge through a vye (but still south of the vye where the lines from Syria and the northern Iraqui network join), and curves through western suburbs (with a branch to the refineries eastwards) then straight to the south (seems to have made use of the refinery industrial branch there). Another line comes in from the east, and swings north to join in with yet another vye, after crossing the canals and the river in the northeast of the city.

Motive power is/was equipped with Willison couplers featuring a cast-in hook of classical European dimensions, giving easy compatibility with either mode of train (similar to Indian Railways motive power). However, as in India or the GUS, the Autocoupler head centers at ca. 1050 mm height over railhead, to match with rolling stock in Europe, Turkey and Syria, or even Iran, but which is a nuisance for AAR-type rolling stock and vice versa.

Kind regards, CTW

CTW, DE-Goslar

Some great info on those sites. Strangely enough, today while at lunch I was watching the news and Rumsfeld mentioned something about getting the railway going north from Baghdad going and using it to supply the northern areas. That was about it and he did not mention if the supplies would be military or humanitarian. Perhaps the tracks from the south are still intact and the only problem is with the tracks that were sabotaged last month.

Dean
(Checked with ieSpell)

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Gerald,

Some great info on those sites. Strangely enough, today while at lunch I was watching the news and Rumsfeld mentioned something about getting the railway going north from Baghdad going and using it to supply the northern areas. That was about it and he did not mention if the supplies would be military or humanitarian. Perhaps the tracks from the south are still intact and the only problem is with the tracks that were sabotaged last month.

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I see I might be wrong about the old Narrow Gauge line. One of those sites says it was built by the Ottomans.

The information about the Baghdad Metro is interesting. I wonder if Saddam is down there.

There was a report that during the occupation of Kuwait the Iraqis were thinking of extending the railway to Kuwait. I wish they would extend it to Dammam in Saudi.
It seems the trains are very deteriorated since I was there - no windows in the carriages and so on. There will need to be a lot of re-equipping. I would guess that an American occupation government would do nothing.

George Matthews

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Gerald,

Some great info on those sites. Strangely enough, today while at lunch I was watching the news and Rumsfeld mentioned something about getting the railway going north from Baghdad going and using it to supply the northern areas. That was about it and he did not mention if the supplies would be military or humanitarian. Perhaps the tracks from the south are still intact and the only problem is with the tracks that were sabotaged last month.

---

I see I might be wrong about the old Narrow Gauge line. One of those sites says it was built by the Ottomans.

The information about the Baghdad Metro is interesting. I wonder if Saddam is down there.

There was a report that during the occupation of Kuwait the Iraqis were thinking of extending the railway to Kuwait. I wish they would extend it to Dammam in Saudi.
It seems the trains are very deteriorated since I was there - no windows in the carriages and so on. There will need to be a lot of re-equipping. I would guess that an American occupation government would do nothing, as Americans tend to be hostile to railways.

George Matthews

>>Satellite view on the Baghdad "Union Terminal" central station (B.Dahlberg)
< http://www.homsonline.com/Irak/Iraq_Baghdad_Satellite_Images_H5.htm > <<
(politely ignore the rest around the pics, if you wish ... -CTW)

H.Koeniger adds a literature info:
>>MIDDLE EAST RAILWAYS, by Hugh Hughes, publ. 1981 by "The Continental Railway Circle", then address:
25 Woodcock Dell Avenue, Kenton, Harrow, Middlesex HA3 0PW, England.
maybe still available via "http://www.icehousebooks.co.uk/A_hugheshugh.htm";<<

J.Seif adds :
>>Jane´s world railways von 1978:
Gauge 1435 mm Track length 1.235 km
Rolling Stock :
19 Steam locos 163 Dieselelectric Locos
240 Passenger cars 3280 Freight cars.<<

(Note that "Jane's" then often supplied material which might politely have been described as "dated", also deemed by reviews then frequently published in "Modern Tramway" by the late WJW (and MRT). I spare you the sarcastic words found otherwise, as it is "OT" here.)

J.Piephans contributes:
>>1963 CKD delivered 20 Units of then- CSD class T 678 / T 679 (later 775 / 776, knwon as "Pomerance", latterly activ in CZ-Zvolen), a six-axle Diesel-electric to Iraq, numbered "DEM 2001" through "DEM 2020". Nice livery in Green, White, und Red. (resembles the Henschel-EMD-s "DEM 2501" - "DEM 2582", of 1983, then).<<

M.Niklas has more on IRR traction hardware:
>>
DEM 2001-20 CKD 1963/64
DEM 2101-05 Alco 1965
DEM 2201-20 Alsthom 1971
DEM 2301-61 MLW 1975-77
DEM 2401-55 Macosa 1980/81 (+ EMD)
DEM 2501-82 Thyssen Henschel 1983/85 (+ EMD)
DEM 4101-72 Francorail ~ 1985
DES 3001-22 CKD 1962-69
DES 3101-? CKD
In addition, 50 Chinese-built (Dalian) "DF10FI" more recently.<<

(REM: Maybe suffix "M" denotes "multi-purpose" and "S" "switching" ?? I personally wonder why the Romanians did not deliver any units other than L45H-s to the then-narrow gauge Bazrah line in pre-1968 years, as Romanian motive power may be found in many places, wouldn't deem them prolific, but KEG hereabouts runs their SLM 060DA clones successfully now, either. Further, Soviet motive power seems virtually absent, contrasting with Syria's "TE 114" <"Tropical Ludmilla">. OK, on we go

CTW (hm, couldn't resist, having seen the units myself test-running on freight duties between Kassel, Marburg and Warburg):
Volker Credé has a nice ex-works photo of the units, linked :
>> A link to a Henschel pic ...
<<

H.Bueckle suggests a link to a private site (which I deem not-yet-complete, though, may be worth checking)
>> http://members.tripod.com/~tuonela/iraq/iraq.html <<

So, I now try that IRR "DEM 2500" spec sheet once more after a suitable downsize to <500K (being reminded of this by Dorr, thanks !)

Still wondering why search engines supply little worthwile information on the topic ...
Kind regards, CTW

CTW, DE-Goslar

Nice pic on the engine and an interesting color scheme. Good job on the map rendition also. It's no surprise to me that information on the subject is hard to find given that only the press seem to be somewhat free to photograph and report whatever they want. The average civilian/tourist photographing things could end up without a camera or worse even during peace time from what I gather. I doubt that there are many Iraqi railfans for fear of retribution.

Dean

I'll tell Volker, as my pic at the very same location was "strafed" by rain in torrents ... no chance.

>interesting color scheme<

I wonder if the green has some meaning. One finds it throughout the Islamic countries (Indonesia, Pakistan, but not Marocco, nor Syria; Egypt partly). Units gave rise to some upheaval around Kassel then. IRR reps wanted the units (each one!) run-in prior to acceptance trials. Henschel had to spend lots of diesel fuel in revenue service, and DB driving staff had an easy time, panto down, feet on controls, and that tiny EMD unit toiling up front (nevertheless, arriving early quite often, to the dismay of local photographers ...).

> I doubt that there are many Iraqi railfans for fear of retribution.<

I'd guess there were as many as there had been Chechenian railfans ... ( - quite a few, and I recall the loss of a tramway photo and model collection in Grozhnyi reported by Modern Tramway ... To say the least, I was told that railroaders of IRR were more than convinced of railroading, more than just a job ... but not as a political issue, so they wouldn't talk a lot about it, and Henschel staff were told to remain silent about the entire deal, anyway. Though, they had more fun when wayside photographers were noted, than Norwegian staff, who were keen to have the police called in when someone tried to take pics of their new "Di-4" units. The only folks ever to express such strange ideas to Henschel staff since 1945 ...

But you are right, a "railroad country" like India has few railfans, no IR model trains, whilst Brazil and former Yugoslavia have ... I can't explain. I wonder if ever some interested watchmaker in Iraq scratchbuilt HO-scale IRR units, but I wouldn't rule it out. Country is a cultural mix, so everything might happen. Also a few positive things (hopefully ...).

Though, worst in Kassel was that elderly lady running the local "lost animal home", a nice person, but turning into a volcano whenever anyone attempted to take pics near her site, which unfortunately coincided with the gates of the Henschel loco works ... )

Reason had been some hostile press report in the late 70ies, which prompted her to oppose photography in general ... She had already been "in conflict with Chinese People Railways" back in 1972 ... ) Yelling 6 times 2700 hp MTU plant in m.u. lashups behind her cats' cages ...

Wish that's all the kind of problems one would have today with railfanning the units. It started badly for some of the 82 units when they caught hostile Iranian fire when road-hauled from Kuwait then...

I still don't know what to think of reports about power upgrades of these locomotives. I believe Henschel's Chief Engine designer Prof. S.Kademann had the carbody designed to carry the 16-645 E3C, either, but I wonder if it ever materialized in IRR practice. Maybe re-using power plant from withdrawn Macosa-EMD units ?

All the best, nonetheless - CTW

CTW, DE-Goslar

--Becky

< http://www.ajg41.clara.co.uk/iraqrailways.html >

>Green is the color of Islam, associated with growth and renewal<

Opening the links in this linked page, you will see your words verified plentifully, on flanged wheels ... ! Guess this is the most cumulative, cross-linked collection I saw so far on IRR and history. Thanks to M.Sandtner of Frankfurt/M, who unearthed that. Great.

One link even has a photo of DEM 2500 which is that on the cover of the spec sheet which I had placed here drawing-wise. Had been supplied by former member of old CS TrainNetForum, Phil Wormald.

The Alcos are worth a look, indeed. Convincing ugliness, but I'd presume these are likely among the items still rolling.

And, finally, greetings and good luck to the Royal Corps of Engineers (Railways) Cpt. Liz ... - Nice, tough job, and we should wish her every success and good luck in re-instating the Southern part of the IRR network !

Cheers - CTW

CTW, DE-Goslar

>> After the British invasion of 1914, Basra - Baghdad was built with surplus metre gauge equipment from India<<

I see I was right the first time.

George Matthews

OK, here is a sketchy plan of the Baghdad area with the rail lines only. Hope it is in-line with the news. Drew it from our local newspapers here.

Pls., correct my erors, and I already have to apologize for some German pronounciation of some items. Hope it remains readable, anyway.

Kind regards, CTW

CTW, DE-Goslar

The central station seemed to have quite a few platforms but no overall roof. However, I didn't have time to linger there as I was met there by the British Council representative and taken quickly to my hotel - the Sheraton. And indeed after travelling for about 12 hours I was keen to get away.

George Matthews

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I was searching around looking for info on any railway in Iraq and found a few links to the history of the the Baghdad Railway. Most of it was encyclopedia links but no modern day information. Is this railway still intact? If so I wonder if it might be used for transporting supplies after the shooting stops since it traverses north and south through Iraq. I've not heard any reports of it on the news although it may be censored by the military for security reasons.

Dean

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The carriages were East German, in reasonable condition, as far as I could tell. I had a first class compartment, which was shared with about three Arabs. I think the compartment could be converted to Couchettes.

One relief of the rail journey was that there were no pictures of Saddam beside the track.

I saw the marshes (not then drained by Saddam). I noted a part of the track near the middle that seemed to have been upgraded to modern high speed standards, but it was only a mile or so.

On entering Baghdad main station I caught a glimpse of a row of steam locos, presumably just dumped there. I took no photos, partly because my camera had no film, partly because I was extremely careful.

I did consider briefly travelling by train from Turkey but I didn't discover whether the train was running, even then, just after the war with iran had finished. So I flew in to Baghdad International. I was sent by the British Council. I was flown to basra, but insisted on returning by train. I had to be firm, as the local Iraqis didn't believe anyone would want to.

I had a nice time but I was always aware of how bad things were and was very careful.
I learned nothing about the service to the north.
George Matthews

That's quite a story! I would have been just as cautious as you were considering the location. Did you notice anyone else with a camera or taking pictures?

<<I was flown to basra, but insisted on returning by train. I had to be firm, as the local Iraqis didn't believe anyone would want to.>>

I guess they may have thought you were a bit strange from that request. No railfans riding the trains there?

Dean
(Checked with ieSpell)

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George,

That's quite a story! I would have been just as cautious as you were considering the location. Did you notice anyone else with a camera or taking pictures?

I took a throwaway camera in case it was confiscated, but only one.

<<I was flown to Basra, but insisted on returning by train. I had to be firm, as the local Iraqis didn't believe anyone would want to.>>

I guess they may have thought you were a bit strange from that request. No railfans riding the trains there?

Dean

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They may have thought flying was more modern - certainly a lot quicker. But it seems the train now is in a really bad condition and the journey takes much longer, if it runs at all.

I would guess they need a lot of new trains, and relay most of the track. It may be many years before there is a rail network again there. Iraq used to be a developed country; now it has been reduced to third world status, by the sanctions and war damage.

George Matthews

George,

Obviously the roads will be cleared and repaired first since these will be used more. Those tanks and armored vehicles tend to tear up asphalt and concrete not to mention the scars of battle. There is probably a purpose to get at least a portion of the line running and I would guess a mass supply effort. A lot of food, medicine, etc. can be shipped at once compared to a road train with less manpower.

If those Army folks can build runways, bridges, etc. I'm sure they could laydown or fix an large extent of track in no time. Like you said in your previous post motive power may be a problem though. Maybe we could loan them a couple of oil burning steamers for a while?

Dean

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Like you said in your previous post motive power may be a problem though. Maybe we could loan them a couple of oil burning steamers for a while?

Dean

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I do wonder if any of those steamers I saw on the approach to Baghdad are still there. I only got a few seconds to see them.

But there must be a supply of hot weather diesels somewhere.

The British Army still has a transportation corps with railway expertise.
Yes, if there is a need to bring in large quantities of supplies to Baghdad the rail would seem to be the best way, if there is enough stock. I doubt if passenger will be a priority, and I should think it will take awhile before any passenger stock is available. By the looks of it whe whole state apparatus, including the Central Bank, has been destroyed so there will be a need for building the basics as much as in Germany in 1945. That took at least 4 years in Germany.

George Matthews

George,
Unlike Germany, Iraq has a plentiful natural resource in high demand. I don't think the Kuwaitis would mind if Iraq's output of oil was prioritized since they will be a friendly neighbor now. The money will flow in as fast as they can pump out the oil. A couple days ago OPEC stated they were cutting down output so this may be a sign of a plan. Besides, the U.S. wants out of there ASAP so we can tend to our own and the other threat.

Now I'll have to search around for any Kuwait motive power available. Perhaps they would be willing to loan a few engines in the name of peace.

Dean

There are no trains in Kuwait.

George Matthews

Yup, found that out also.

Dean

I don't think Kuwait will regard any Iraqi regime as 'friendly'. Saddam wasn't the first to try to annexe Kuwait. Even the Royal regime tried to do that. That may be why the railway has never been extended. The Saudis of course are paranoid about people entering the kingdom and so would not like to see mass transit, but there might be advantages to connecting the Saudi system at Dammam to Iraq.

The Saudis keep talking about building a line across the country from Riyadh to Jeddah, and then up to Jordan, but they never actually do anything.

The last time I was there they built a big new station at Dammam, capable of taking several trains with I think at least 4 platforms. I imagine them filled with trains: to Kuwait; to Qatar or Bahrain, to Jeddah.

George Matthews

Perhaps, but I'm sure if the U.S. could be very persuasive considering our involvement now and in the past.

<<The Saudis of course are paranoid about people entering the kingdom>>

I suppose we (and the rest of the world) are lucky that all the mideast countries have not banded together. They could conceivably control the world through their natural resource.

Dean

Dean

Dean

Main page -

http://www.operations.mod.uk/telic/photo_gallery_ops_humaid.htm

Train pictures -

MOD is the Ministry Of Defence (UK).

--
Erich S Houchens
Fort Worth, Texas

eshouchens@charter.net
BNSF-DS@trainorders.com
AOL IM: RRspatch ICQ: 172674

The yellow "critter" or small switcher seems to be a diesel-hydraulic DH240B built by Jenbacher Works (as the logo in front on the cab reveals), just a guestimate, as Jenbacher worked closely with Henschel in this regard, and IIRC never built diesel-electrics. Seems this one does not belong to IRR, and maybe the Basrah Harbour Lines are an own administration. Any IRR logos seen ?

The unit in the background of the p.w. crew seems to be one of the MLW-Alcos.

Pretty well-polished. Seems a job well-done! Similar scenes did show up on German 2nd TV channel Sat evening. Hope the trains did arrive in Baghdad allright !

Kind regards, CTW

CTW, DE-Goslar

BBC news on Monday night showed a very brief glimpse of a train in the Umm Qasr area. It seemed to be a baggage composite carriage with a British soldier guarding it from the open baggage door. I didn't notice the locomotive. The carriage itself was not one I am familiar with. Perhaps it was Chinese.

George Matthews