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C_Th_Wg

 
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Member since 28-Oct-01
"TANGARA 4-car set derailed ?"
02-Feb-03, 03:59 PM (MST)
LAST EDITED ON 02-Mar-03 AT 10:58 AM (MST)
 
Hello, sorry that it's a destructive event again causing a posting, ... You may have read the basics of the commuter train crash near Sydney in the "grey" news column on TrainNet's home page.

I am wondering why so many of these hailed novelties of the late 80ies (I may recall the articles in "Network - Railways of Australia Quarterly"), double-deck suburban emu-s dubbed "TANGARA" for the 1.5 kV dc suburban electrification, have so often met their fate thus, or similarly.

The tendency to derail on pointwork and curves for me (hopefully, I am seeing ghosts) seems to raise questions about an excessive stiffness of the "rocking stabilizer" cranks in the bogie frames. I had not seen these previously, met them first on the latest Italian DD 3kV emu stock on an 1998 exhibition, where these cranks are mounted under the secondary suspension and their "pistons" extend to the carbody base of the secondary suspension. Thus, it will not impair synchronous vertical deflection of the secondary suspension, but any yaw or tilt between bogie frame and carbody will be met with a mechanical "stop".

This also impairs a torsional deflection of bogie frames against one another, i.e tilting under the carbody in opposite directions. This is actually required to negotiate ramps of changing superelevation, pointwork in curves, and the like.

Q.: Could it be that the Tangara emu-s are using such devices and that these are too stiff ? That is, together with dampers and other stuff, the cars may not react adequately to track irregularities or superelevation ramps, and may thus get catapulted out of curves if only too fast by a fraction of a hair on the speedometer, with less of a safety margin than known from other trains ?

I learn from aerial views and the reports that the train was indeed travelling too fast, but could it be that another type of DD train might have made it "by the heels" at that speed ?

Regarding the first car as scrap, what will be done with the rest of the consist? No.3 and No.4 might be worth repairing, but are there still sufficient parts around for car 2, maybe salvaged from previous accidents ?

Sorry to note that the damage was mechanically worse than in the German Neustadt incident of 1997, but IMHO the Tangara trains still seem to feature a higher level of passive safety than the German double-deckers.

Kind regards, CTW

CTW, DE-Goslar


 

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George Matthews

 
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1. "RE: TANGARA 4-car set derailed ?"
02-Mar-03, 06:14 PM (MST)
In response to message #0
 
I can't answer any of your learned questions. However, I have travelled in one or more of these trains in Sydney in 1986 when I had an Austrail pass and stayed with friends in a suburb. At that time I don't think I had seen a modern double decker before, so they were a novelty. I didn't notice any ride peculiarities. I didn't feel unsafe. I gather the latest accident was in a fairly narrow stone sided cutting. Perhaps this was too narrow for these trains.

George Matthews


 

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C_Th_Wg

 
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2. "RE: TANGARA 4-car set derailed ?"
03-Mar-03, 04:13 PM (MST)
In response to message #1
 
><...> they were a novelty. I didn't notice any ride peculiarities. I didn't feel unsafe.<

Nort did the test engineers in 1986 when the units were unleashed. I still like them. But the Italian equivalent (looking far more crammed and old-fashioned in 1998) had these "rocking stabilizer cranks" near the secondary suspension. It is at once evident that the rubber blocks fixing the linkages to the carbody may require some degree of elasticity, as otherwise the primary suspension might not suffice to avoid unbalanced wheel loadings before and after superelevation ramps.

Did you watch any such devices near the trucks of these cars ? Aerial views and my copies form NETWORK just indicate a "could be", so I would like to have an indication from the real thing.

> I gather the latest accident was in a fairly narrow stone sided cutting. Perhaps this was too narrow for these trains.<

Ah - no, come on, that's a fully-equipped main line near Waterfalls- and cant deficiency parameters will not differ at S.R.NSW from anywhere else. After all, the first car "flew" over the opposing track, then hit the rocks. Trackside scraping traces were evident near the rear (overturned) coach in the aerial views provided in the "Moreover.com" columns here.

However, if digging into Australian sites some more incidents with the cars show up. However, this won't mean anything. There had been numerous incidents with the German cl.420 emu, and that Stuttgart "GT-4" tram had a record of overturning until 1976. It is still a good vehicle - though dated by now.

Regards, CTW

CTW, DE-Goslar


 

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